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 High Stakes Poker Staking!!!!

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PostSubject: High Stakes Poker Staking!!!!   Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:10 pm

Tournament Backing In An Evolving Poker World

With Players Funds still stuck on several online poker sites, the poker world has suffered tremendously due funds being stuck online as well as one less avenue of income. Many Players used online as an extra form of income, now that that avenue is now closed for American players, it affects not only the American players that can't play online but it affects players throughout the world you may of had Make-up in those American horses. What is Make-up? Well in the poker world it is not uncommon for a profitable poker player to look for assistence in getting funds necassary to play either bigger or something the player might not be finicially ready to take on their own. On we refer to make-up as "Donkey Dollars", in which when you stake someone and they lose then that money is now Donkey Dollars and can only be paid back by a future profit from a future stake by the same staker. ( Example : Person A Stakes Person B $10 and Person B loses the $10 but 2 weeks later Person A stakes Person B another $10 and Person B profits and has $30 now, he will send back the stakeback ($10) you both split the remaining $20 and receive $10 each and Person B pays Person A their share of the $10, paying off the previous owed Donkey Dollars) and a player playing with a staker's money will often be refferred to as a "Horse". This Summer's WSOP was deceivingly successful as for most of the players it was just a last chance effort to try and "hit it big" before the summer ended. After Black Friday, online poker left both Backers and Players in a tough spot and most Backers had to put their American Make-up on ice and American Players either had to find baacking elsewhere or employment/income elsewhere.

Some big name Backers Include

Jason Mercier has earned over $7.1 million in his impressive poker tournament career and that does not include the millions he has won by successfully Backing/Staking other players. Mercier understands that it takes more than just winning results to make a profitable Horse. “The results are kind of secondary to how they are playing,” Mercier said. “The best players in the world can run badly for an extended period of time. For me, it’s more important that my horses are playing well and making the right decisions. If that’s the case, then the good results will eventually follow.”(Mercier)

Chris Moorman, one of the U.K.’s best players once had a solid stable of 32 horses and just recently was forced to drop many of them. “I was basically forced to put all of my American horses’ makeup on hold,” Moorman admitted. “I didn’t want to drop them entirely and lose their action, but I couldn’t really afford to put them through an entire summer of WSOP events either. If they had completely bricked out, then there was no shot of earning it back online. I really had to cut down to the European guys first and only use spare funds for American players.”(Moorman)

Chris Moorman, now a Lock Poker pro after leaving the DoylesRoom "Brunson 10", has earned over $4.1 million in career tournament winnings, including over $1 million at this summer’s WSOP, but even he won’t grant his horses live-only deals. “All online players are looking for live only deals, but I’ll never do it,” said Moorman. “If they want to play big buy-in live tournaments, then they are going to need to sell their online action as well. The only time I ever even considered it was for Ty Reiman, who obviously did really well by me by finishing second in the 2010 PCA for $1.75 million. Honestly, I didn’t want to deal with the variance. So when someone asks me for a live only deal, I just tell them that if Ty didn’t get one, then they certainly aren’t going to get one.” (Moorman)
Moorman, despite finding success by investing in other players, also warned about the potential pitfalls. “Backing is a huge hassle and its way more time consuming than most people realize. Obviously, depending on your horses, it can be incredibly profitable, but there are a lot of factors to consider. You really need to be able to trust your horses and need to stay on top of them, making sure they are playing at their best. Some players also play better on their own money, so you need to take that into consideration as well. Black Friday has made a lot of players desperate, so it’s important to make sure that you aren’t being screwed over. With the current volatility of the poker market, I really can’t recommend anybody getting involved.” (Moorman)

There are however acceptions to people wanting to back players live, such as David Peters, who has nearly $1.4 million in earnings. David Peters as recently seeked the backing of fellow poker pro Bryn Kenney. “There are always downswings, but I have never gotten to the point where I have considered not playing anymore,” Peters said. “For the most part, I have always been financially on my own. So, the downswings affect me a little bit more. But, for the past year or so I have been backed by Bryn Kenney for all live tournaments. So that definitely helps with the swings. I wanted a live-only deal, where I could keep my online action. Live buy-ins add up very fast. Finding a live-only deal isn’t easy to do, so I was happy when I found one and just went with it.” (Peters)

Big Make-up Figures

Tony “Bond18” Dunst, one of the more well known faces and names in the online world is now making himself more well known in the live arena by recently becoming the host for the World Poker Tour's Raw Deal. Dunst, is also a backed player and has player 27 events at this summer's WSOP cashing in none of them. After the WSOP, Dunst has accumulated about $210,000 in makeup over the last 12 months. “I’ve never completely bricked a summer before,” Dunst said. “If we want to get technical, I’ve come close to bricking an entire year. I have only one live tournament cash in those last 12 months. On one hand it’s easy to shrug off because it’s not actually my money, but on the other I feel the guilt of causing further financial strain on a friend whose summer was as bad as mine.”(Dunst)

WPT champion Nam Le also has his hands in the staking world, the current world of live backing is anything but easy.(Le) Le, who has more than $6 million in lifetime earnings, said he has made mistakes before about putting people into events. The poker pro said it can take years for a horse to find his or her way out of the red.“A few years ago it was easier to show a profit quicker in this type of business deal, however now with the fields being so tough; you have to be willing to go deep before showing a return,” Le said. “It might take a long time to get your money back.”(Le)
Many Pros despite having funds stuck online have still been able to find backing for big events they might otherwise be finincially set for such as the $25,000 World Poker Tour Championship and the $50,000 Players Championship at the World Series of Poker.

Jason Mercier has had two primary horses that have served well for him in the past and really cashed in for Mercier, Dan O’Brien and Allen Bari, both cashed for over $1.2 million but still after those cashes, Mercier says hes still in the Red for Staking. “Since I’ve gotten into poker, I’ve probably backed about 13 or 14 different players,” Mercier said. “These weren’t random events where I just bought a piece; these were relatively long-term deals that spanned a number of tournaments. Of those players, I’d say I hung on to 5 or 6 of them for more than a year. I’ve been losing money backing players for the last 30 months, so to get almost all of it back in one summer was a great feeling.” (Mercier)

Backing for Smaller Tournaments

Ari Engel, another one of the most consistent players on the tournament circuit, backs a group of players in Las Vegas for smaller buy-in daily tournaments. “A big problem right now is that there isn’t a $0.01-$0.02 cash game going on for the micro-stakes player,” Engel said. “It’s harder for people to come in and play in the cash games. Right now the $1-$3 games in Vegas have a buy-in of $300, which is so much bigger than what online was able to offer. The vast majority of professionals in the game right now started off playing really, really small online. I think this is an issue for poker for the time being. Online poker will eventually become regulated, but if we were just stuck with live poker for a long time, that would be devastating for the game.”(Engel)

How These Relationships Affect Play

With so many players’ finances intertwined, it would be impossible to keep them at separate tables for the entire duration of a tournament. Furthermore, it would be extremely difficult to regulate any soft play between backers and their horses. Accusations have surfaced throughout the years of supposed collusion, but these cases are rarely proven or punished.

To combat this dynamic, players are constantly policing themselves, making existing backing relationships public around the tables.

The recently launched Epic Poker League has gone so far as to include backing in their rules, forcing all players to disclose their deals once the tournament has reached the money. In addition, no player may have a smaller interest in him or herself than he or she has in any other player in the event. Trades are even limited to a maximum of 10 percent. It remains to be seen how enforceable these rules are.

Even leaving a backing relationship isn’t easy, because although a backer can drop a horse at any time, the horse cannot quit unless he is in the black for his stake. Even with one of the best poker résumés in the business, Shaun Deeb found the need to receive backing before the 2009 World Series of Poker. Deeb reached a staking deal with Cliff “JohnnyBax” Josephy and Eric “sheets” Haber, rumored to have a colossal stable of pros. The decision wasn’t out of necessity, but instead out of comfort.

“I’m sure they knew when I was really deep in the WCOOP event, and after I got out of makeup, [that] I was going to leave them,” Deeb said. “I was cutting down my volume and not following their rules – kind of doing my own thing. I did really well for them over the years, and they were really helpful when I needed them. I could always have been on my own. It was a comfort thing. I was just like, alright, you’re not needed anymore, and we parted ways.”(Deeb)

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PostSubject: Re: High Stakes Poker Staking!!!!   Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:50 pm

nice thread... good work on it :)and yes obv the horse world will suffer alot.. and so will the backers
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PostSubject: Re: High Stakes Poker Staking!!!!   Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:26 pm

very nice thread man.. hopefully stars and ftp will be fixed for usa players within the next year or 2.
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